About the war and sex work in Ukraine with Kateryna Kvashnina, Odesa

Today we are talking with Kateryna Kvashnina, the leader of the community of sex workers from CO ‘Legalife-Ukraine’ in Odesa.

Natalia Dorofeeva, CO “Legalife-Ukraine” (ND): Hello, Kateryna! This is our first interview with you, so I would like to know more about you and your life before we met in CO ‘Legalife-Ukraine’ - where are you from, where did you study, what did you dream about.

Kateryna: I was born in the city of Odesa in the family of a teacher and a military man, in which the main value has always been support and mutual understanding. I studied at a local school, and I have always been interested in the humanities, and I’m fascinated by the art and history of the ancient Slavs. I dreamed of becoming a lawyer or a social worker to help people.

Part of my dreams came true because I was able to combine my work with the social sphere and human rights.

Before I joined the human rights movement, I was not satisfied with any job, and I felt that I wanted to do something else. I took part in various volunteer projects related to helping people living with HIV or belonging to vulnerable groups. It was through mutual friends who knew about my volunteer work and interest in the social sphere that I got to Legalife-Ukraine.

ND: What are you passionate about besides work? Do you have any hobbies? How do you spend your free time and with whom?

Kateryna: In addition to work, I like to read books on historical topics, especially about the life of the ancient Slavs, and study Scandinavian mythology. I am fond of drawing, arts and crafts and making my own art dolls - it is not only my way of relieving stress, but also an opportunity for self-development. 

In my free time, I try to meet friends or spend time with my family. I love to be outdoors, in the countryside, where life and living resembles the way our ancestors used to live.

ND: Why did you decide to join us and defend the rights of sex workers? Do you have any personal story that prompted this decision?

Kateryna: Because of my keen sense of justice, I have always wanted to protect those who are attacked by crowds. Because of a sick society that, due to its own complexes, tries to destroy everyone who does not fit into its framework, labelling and discriminating against them. I myself have experienced these negative phenomena more than once.

I belong to several vulnerable groups, so I had to constantly defend my rights. So, I decided that my experience should help other people who need protection.

ND: Did your family support your choice?

Kateryna: My family was sincerely happy that I had found a job that I would enjoy and that would provide opportunities for professional fulfilment in applying my life experience to help other people.

ND: Can you already tell us what attracts you the most about working with CO ‘Legalife-Ukraine’ and what challenges you face?

Kateryna: The thing I like most is our team of like-minded people from different regions of Ukraine. I see how different and unique we are, but we are united by common goals and a desire to help SWs, who often remain defenseless.

The most difficult thing is to constantly face discrimination and prejudice from both society and government agencies.

ND: Given these difficulties, have you ever thought of giving up?

Katerina:  Only sometimes, when I have to submit a report. It’s a joke, but there is some truth in it. I have never liked working with documents. At first, I couldn’t deal with it at all on my own. Then, for the first time, I felt the support of the team, which helped me to solve this problem. I continue because I see the result - even if it is not always great, it is real.

In the photo: art dolls made by Kateryna

ND: Katia, please tell us what is happening today in the life of SWs and in the sex work market in your city? What changes has the war brought about?

Kateryna:  The war has created additional pressure on sex workers, as many of them were forced to move, lose their homes and look for new sources of income in other cities or even countries. This also had a significant impact on their mental health.

Due to curfews and blackouts, many sex workers lost the ability to work at night. Others, on the contrary, have learned to use the lack of light to create a romantic atmosphere, lighting candles and aroma lamps, choosing a time for work when it is not allowed to go outside. However, in our city, many people ignore the curfew, and not only sex workers.

The rocket attacks have made the work even more dangerous, so some have switched to online platforms: many have moved to webcams or online communication, while others are looking for clients through social media and messengers.

Some have temporarily stopped working and are trying to find other opportunities to earn money, but for many, this is their only source of income, so it is very difficult for them to leave the industry. Moreover, many women started to earn money through sex work because they lost their sources of income, particularly those who were displaced. It was the war that forced them to turn to sex work because there is not enough work in the city or it is low-paid. Competition has increased, and this creates certain difficulties, in particular because of the decrease in prices for sex services.

At the beginning of the war, many sex workers saw their earnings increase as men sent their families abroad, so the need for sexual services increased. But over time, the number of clients decreased, especially among civilians. Now, the earnings of SWs have decreased due to the decreased solvency of clients, as well as the general economic crisis. This is forcing people to engage in risky practices that they would not have agreed to before in order to earn more. This is due to desperation and the inability to find another job.

ND: What are the most common challenges that businesses face during the war?

Kateryna: The biggest problems are economic instability, insecurity due to shelling, and psychological pressure.

Humanitarian aid is something that almost all sex workers who come to me need by now. Because of the war and the rapid rise in prices for basic necessities, people are forced to survive by choosing between food and medicine, utility bills and clothes. Many people with average incomes have fallen below the poverty line. Sex workers also found it harder to earn money during the war. If a person is also addicted to drugs, they may not eat for several days.  In order to provide people with humanitarian aid, I use not only the resources of our organisation, but also local NGOs and charities, to which I then refer clients.

In the photo: humanitarian aid from CO ‘Legalife-Ukraine’ to sex workers in Odesa, 2024.

Many seek help because of legal problems or violence. Sex workers, especially girls, often suffer from unlawful actions by acquaintances, clients, doctors and police officers. The police often do not respond to such reports. But this is only half the problem.

Most of the appeals from girls about violations of their rights concern the police. ‘Recently, I was approached by a girl who had been invited to her home by a policeman posing as a client. Five of his friends were waiting for her there, drunk and high on drugs. They raped her for more than a day, and when the poor girl tried to escape, these bastards shot her in the back with service weapons.

As a rule, sex workers do not seek help for such crimes committed by law enforcement officers because they are afraid that it will be worse, and these fears are well-founded. There have been cases when, in retaliation for those who decided to fight for their rights, drugs were planted or other reasons were given for people to receive real terms for crimes they did not commit. Drug-dependent sex workers often face violations by law enforcement officers, including illegal searches, blackmail, etc...

In state institutions, they face artificial obstacles created by employees of these institutions: they refuse to provide information, accept documents or delay their issuance, etc. Sometimes I accompany people to partner NGOs where they can get help, but most often I provide paralegal assistance on my own. I accompany them to a medical facility, the police, the prosecutor’s office, reintegration centres, legal aid centres, the pension fund or the migration service. By the way, the migration service is an institution that requires special attention: to restore lost documents, you have to go through seven circles of hell, especially for IDPs who for some reason constantly need to confirm their identity.

ND: Do you think SWs has the capacity to solve these problems on their own, without your help?

Kateryna: Sex workers can solve some problems on their own. By the way, we discuss how to defend their rights and solve other problems on their own at our information sessions, which take place 4 times a month. This helps each participant not only to get the necessary information, but also to share it with other sex workers who are interested in it. At the information sessions, we pay a lot of attention to the legal aspects, so at least people know where to go for help. And if they fail, they come to me.

In the photo: an information session for SWs in Odesa, 2024.

But not all problems are as easy to solve as I would like.  Sometimes, I also puzzle over what I can do to help in a particular case. For example, a client hasn’t paid, and how can I get them to pay back? This is a common problem, especially among girls working online. There are cases when, due to imperfect legislation and a corrupt law enforcement system, the problem cannot be solved legally at all.

ND: What help can you provide to SWs as the leader of the initiative group? What problems have you already managed to solve?

Kateryna: Every person who comes to me for help has individual needs. Depending on what problem needs to be solved, I draw up an action plan and discuss it with the person who has come to me.

Often, in the process of communicating with a client, we find out about related problems that also need to be addressed. Therefore, any assistance begins with a consultation. Sometimes it is enough to just provide a person with quality information and provide information support in the process. I believe that the best help is to teach a person how to solve a problem, because when they face it for the second time, they will have their own experience and will cope on their own.

Another common problem in our city is the shortage of social housing. Due to the large influx of internal migrants, it is expensive to rent housing in Odesa. Shelters, reintegration centres and other temporary shelters for IDPs are overcrowded. In addition, these centres have strict working hours and daily routines, which creates obstacles to sex work, which is the only source of income for most of the potential residents.

Everyone solves this problem in their own way: some people spend the night with friends, if they have any, others manage to get an additional job where they are provided with accommodation.  Some people use heating mains, basements, city parks, railway stations, etc. as temporary accommodation. But, as the saying goes, there is nothing more permanent than the temporary.

This is exactly what almost happened to two girls I met in a dilapidated unfinished building. They came to our city to escape the war. It was the war, the lack of income, and the difficulty of finding a job that could support them that forced this girls to provide sexual services for a fee.

At first they worked only online, then they started travelling to clients. This gave them the opportunity to buy food and clothes. The unfinished building became their new home. They charged their phones at the nearest station, collected water from neighbouring houses, cooked over a fire, and later bought a portable gas stove. I immediately provided them with advice on social protection, told them where to go and in what cases they could apply. Then I accompanied them to the NGO ‘Sunshine Circle’ (ГО «Сонячне коло») to test them for HIV and syphilis, and give them condoms and lubricants. The girls met a social worker whom they can now contact. I also provided them with humanitarian aid from Legalife-Ukraine.

In the photo: Consultation of SWs who are living in an unfinished building

To effectively redirect a client, you need to understand their needs. The girls whose story I started telling had a terrible psychological state due to violence from the occupiers. That’s why a psychologist from the Positive Women Odesa charity foundation worked with them. I also offered them a local shelter for IDPs, but they were not satisfied with the living conditions there. They had every chance of staying in an unfinished building, where it would not be so cosy in winter. I had no idea where to put them, at least temporarily. The problem was solved thanks to our activist. He was very concerned about the girls, and so he persuaded his aunt to take them in. The aunt was not very happy at first, she just felt sorry for the girls. But now they have become such good friends that she never lets them go anywhere.

ND: Kateryna, are there any other organisations in Odesa that also help the SWs? Who are they and what kind of support do you receive from them?

Kateryna: I cooperate with almost all NGOs, but most often I turn to the ‘Sun Circle’ and the ‘Positive Women Odesa’ charity foundation. Most often, this concerns cases of domestic and gender-based violence, which sex workers are increasingly facing. The specialists of these organisations know where to accompany the client, which institution is best to contact in a particular case, provide quality psychological assistance, etc.

Our girls also like to attend various women’s trainings, self-help groups and workshops held in the safe space of these organisations.

In general, I refer or accompany a person depending on their needs: if it is HIV, I refer them to NGO Alternative or 100% Life or Positive Women, if the issue is drug addiction, I refer them to VONA, etc.

In critical cases, I ask for help from the deputy of the city council, Iryna Yesenovych. I also began to cooperate with the specialists of the NGO ‘Prozhektor’. They have lawyers who really provide qualified legal assistance to representatives of vulnerable groups, even representing clients in courts if their rights are violated due to discrimination.

In the photo: a working meeting with representatives of the CO ‘Positive Women. Odesa’

ND: And what about entrepreneurs and businesses, is it possible to get help from them for a SWs today?

Kateryna: I believe that if you have the will, you can do anything, but is such help needed when it is not from the heart?

I have had cases when I distributed humanitarian aid to our girls and boys, and people asked me why they needed help, they were already doing well, and should go to work, etc. People don’t even consider sexual services to be work. And when, in response, I offer them to work in this field for at least a day, with guarantees of complete safety that sex workers do not have in their everyday lives, people refuse, saying: ‘I’m not for sale’.  This is not true!  Everyone is for sale! In any job, we rent our bodies, on average for 8 hours a day. Even if we have our own business, we spend most of our time doing something we don’t like but that brings in money.  But for some reason, most people consider their work to be normal, while sex work is not.

Therefore, in our society, of course, we can get help for a particular person, but without indicating that they are sex workers. Then there are more chances to get it.

ND: What advice would you give to female activists who are new to our field?

Kateryna: In my opinion, beginners often come to our field to help themselves by helping others. This is a very strong motivation, and at first every small achievement gives them great satisfaction. But later, they may need help themselves. Because due to a high emotional load, a person may face professional burnout.

An important way to prevent it is the ability to put barriers between yourself and the client. At the initial stage, almost everyone makes the same mistake that I used to make.  I let my clients’ problems pass through me, and I suffered for it.  It is very difficult to help someone in such an emotional state.  To get back to work, I had to solve my own problems first. And this applies to all the unresolved problems that we come to overcome in our lives by helping others. You always have to start with yourself.

ND: Kateryna, what do you hope for in the future that could make the lives of sex workers safer?

Kateryna: I believe that decriminalisation of sex work can make sex workers’ lives safer.

I hope that our society will finally recover from the serious diseases of xenophobia and sexism. In fact, I am sure that the source of this disease is only human ignorance and Soviet upbringing, which prohibit us from living a free life and having the right to our own opinion. The Soviet guardians of morality even managed to get into the beds of the multi-million Gulag (Main Administration of Correctional Labor Camps), forbidding people to love and express their feelings. Yes, I’m not afraid to talk about feelings in this context, because sex is one of the ways to express love. If every family had a good sex life, no one would need sexual services at all.

But most people, instead of realising this and putting things in order in their own beds, meddle in other people’s beds, with the support of the party or religious ideologues. Having declared sex to be a dirty, sinful and blasphemous phenomenon, they often use the services of sex workers themselves.

Interview by Natalia Dorofeeva (CO “Legalife-Ukraine”)