About the war and sex work in Ukraine with Victoria Sakhnenko, Mykolaiv

We are talking with Viktoriia Sakhnenko, the leader of the initiative group of sex workers from CO ‘Legalife-Ukraine’ in Mykolaiv town.

Natalia Dorofeeva, CO “Legalife-Ukraine” (ND): Almost a year has passed since your last interview. Tell us about your life, what changes have taken place in your life since then?

Victoria: Not much has changed in my personal life. As a community leader and human rights activist, I have gained experience working in a war zone. When there is no electricity, no internet, and you still have to communicate and organise somehow - and this includes meetings with partners, conducting classes for sex workers, distributing humanitarian aid, etc.

This year I had many meetings with interesting people. I got acquainted with representatives of the International Medical Corps in Mykolaiv and attended their training on the basics of the concept of gender-based violence. Communication with their representatives is a valuable experience for me.

I also took a course on Prevention of Sexual Exploitation and Abuse (PSEA) and received a certificate from UNICEF.

We worked offline and online with the National Platform of Communities all year to address community issues and prepare for the National Forum. Of course, there is fatigue from the war, sometimes to the point of despair, but when you see that others need you, it gives you strength. That’s why I don’t want to leave.

ND: And yet, how does the war affect you personally, I mean the economic instability and the difficulties associated with it?

Victoria: I believe that given the difficult situation in the country, the many sufferings and losses around us, I have no right to complain. We have enough to live on, and I would like to thank our sponsors and organisations who find the opportunity to provide various types of assistance. It is very important to me.

ND: how are things going with your wards, what changes have taken place in the initiative group (IG) during this time?

Victoria: Yes, there are changes, for example, the size of the group is changing. Some girls left the country, some stopped attending information sessions, but the core of the IG remains.  New activists appear, and we add SWs from cross-groups, in particular from the community of people living with HIV and/or drug addiction, etc.

I believe that thanks to our meetings, the group has become more united, people have hope, support, and a sense of belonging to the community. Many girls, despite the war, have increased their self-esteem, self-respect and readiness to defend themselves and their rights. Today, when we are all surviving in difficult times, it is important to know and feel that there is a group of people you can turn to if you need to.

There are also difficulties, for example, with the room for holding meetings of the initiative group. Our partners at Unitus allow us to hold meetings in their community centre now. This is good, and we are very grateful to them. But to have your own room or space is a completely different level of security for the joint venture and organisational development of the community. 

As for new partners, this year we cooperated with the International Medical Corps. We also had the opportunity to meet with representatives of the Danish Refugee Council to tell them about ourselves and the organisation of CO ‘Legalife-Ukraine’ in the hope of future cooperation.

In the photo: an information meeting with the SWs on the basis of the Unitus community on human trafficking and assistance to victims

ND: It seems that in the third year of the war, people are very tired, and it is clear that tensions are rising. In your experience, does this affect attitudes towards sex workers and sex work?

Victoria: In times of war, discussions of sex work in public space are not common. Therefore, it is difficult for me to draw conclusions about global changes in public opinion in any direction. 

But at the household level, I notice negativity. For example, in cases where couples break up due to a long separation, women often blame the sex workers with whom their husbands had or have relationships.

ND: Do you personally face any negative reactions to your work?

Viktoriia: I think that probably some people do not like what I do. When the rights of sex workers are violated, when girls face humiliation, insults, etc., my task is to protect, defend sex workers, so I have to react to make the offender answer for what he did, etc.

Of course, not everyone likes this, you face negativity, in some cases, an openly hostile attitude.  Well, the thought that I have an organization behind me that supports me and is a worthy cause that is worth it helps me.

I feel like I’m doing something good and useful for the girls, I see them changing and growing emotionally, and it makes me happy.

It is important to me that my environment supports me in this. With their sincere and appropriate advice or examples, my family helps me to work even harder and achieve my goals.

ND: How different are your relations with government agencies and the police in 2024 compared to 2023 and 2022?

Viktoriia: As a community representative, I had to apply to various government agencies this year. These were the Administrative Services Center (ASC), the social protection department, the police, etc. The reason for such visits, in most cases, was a negative attitude towards my clients, humiliation of human dignity by civil servants.

The situations my sex workers find themselves in are very similar, they usually complain about employees who make humiliating and offensive statements about them, ask questions that are not related to their case and are personal, and in general, behave in a way that is unacceptable for the rank of civil servant.

The last time my client and I turned to the head of the social protection department for an explanation of a similar situation. It should be noted that our comments were accepted and an apology was issued to the client.

ND: Do you often have "to cross paths" with the police nowadays? Is there any change in the attitude of police officers towards sex workers?

Viktoriia: Nowadays, there is a situation where many inexperienced young people come to law enforcement agencies. They have a prejudiced attitude towards sex work and sex workers, which leads to stigma and discrimination, and the remnants of the ‘stick system’, as it was in the Soviet police. They are not well informed and do not have the appropriate skills to communicate with our community.

To fix this, it is necessary to reintroduce trainings on overcoming stigma and discrimination against SWs by police officers. We conducted such trainings five years ago, and we saw that it made sense and was met with understanding from law enforcement officers. But over the years, the staff has changed several times, and we need to start all over again.

There are no more raids in the city because the picture of service provision has changed. 90 per cent of the girls have left the track, working either by phone or in saunas, on call, or consolidated in groups of two or three girls, renting premises, etc. And if there is no request from the police leadership for roundups, then the girls work calmly.

ND: What about access to healthcare services: what barriers do businesses in Mykolaiv face today? 

Victoria: It has become more difficult to get medical care, in particular due to the reduction of medical staff in all institutions. The lack of qualified staff leads to an increase in the number of refusals to provide services, cases of violation of rights, stigmatising attitudes and unworthy behaviour of medical staff towards the SWs. As an example, I was recently approached by a girl who faced a humiliating attitude and sadistic examination by a gynaecologist. When the girl said that this was not the way to treat patients, the doctor replied "why should we stand on ceremony with you bit...s". Unfortunately, such cases are not uncommon.

The lack of state funding for syphilis treatment programmes is a big problem and a real threat to Ukraine. The syphilis test is free, but the treatment is not, and this is a socially dangerous disease. Experts on the sidelines whisper that the disease is reviving at an alarming rate, and given the conditions of war, we may face a real epidemic...

I don’t think the situation will improve in the near future, and the reorganisation of medical institutions in our city is still ongoing, which does not improve access to medical services either.

ND: Do you have harm prevention and reduction services in place, because in some regions there are problems with this?

Victoria: The harm prevention and reduction services we cooperate with do their job well, despite the difficulties, so I would like to express my gratitude for the cooperation of Mykolaiv Local Charitable Foundation ‘Unitus’, NGO ‘Public Health and Positive Action “Vremya Zhyttia”, CO “Positive Women of Mykolaiv”. 

At the beginning of the war, there were really serious difficulties, there was a shortage of staff, the city was under fire, the office of the CF ‘Unitus’ was directly hit by an enemy missile, and it was only a lucky chance that no one was killed. But, despite everything, the work did not stop.  Thanks to the CF ‘Unitus’, the girls are provided with condoms and lubricants, and have the opportunity to get tested for HIV. The NGO ‘Public Health and Positive Action “Time of Life” and the CO “Positive Women of Mykolaiv” involve us in awareness-raising activities and humanitarian programs.

ND: What other problems do SWs face, what are their main concerns today, and do their needs change over time?

Viktoriia: Most of the needs of sex workers remain the same - humanitarian aid. We try to meet them, the aid kits are of high quality and well-packaged, and every month, sex workers receive food and hygiene products. In addition, our SWs receive clothes, underwear and various household items, such as gas stoves, power cans, sleeping bags and more.

A significant difference in needs and the biggest problem we are unable to solve is the lack of electricity, which forces people to sit for hours without light, without the internet, unable to do anything. In winter, even more severe blackouts are happening, which entail the need for powerful devices that can power heating boilers, such as expensive storage stations, voltage inverters with chargers, etc. Unfortunately, the SWs do not have the means to purchase such equipment at their own expense.

In the photo: humanitarian aid to SWs in Mykolaiv, 2024

ND: Please recall the last time you helped sex workers, and what needs were met?

Victoria: More recently, there was a case when a woman came from abroad to get information about her ex-husband, with whom she had not had a relationship for many years. I had to collect information about the relevant services and algorithms for obtaining these documents in advance. She was short on time and had to get there within a week, so when she arrived, I accompanied her to all the services. The issue was successfully resolved.

There was also a case of a young woman with a child who needed accommodation. I turned to our SWs girls. Through word of mouth, they found an apartment with a landlady who had a spare room. On the condition that she take care of the old lady, the woman moved in, and the problem was solved.

We also receive calls from those who have found themselves abroad. ‘Without knowledge of the language, laws, without friends and acquaintances with whom they can communicate frankly, it is very difficult for women. They call me just to chat or to get advice on various issues, such as obtaining documents or where to settle, how to find accommodation, etc.

ND: What is your personal motivation for working in the field of sex workers’ rights protection? What do you consider your main achievement on this path?

Viktoriia: The military operations and the unstable situation in the country lead to the spread of rights violations and violence against sex workers. Studies have shown that seven out of ten women experience gender-based violence.  Women’s vulnerability to domestic violence has increased significantly during this war.  Violations of sex workers’ rights are widespread in medical institutions and social protection services. Therefore, our work is more relevant than ever.

The main achievement in my work, I believe, is the feeling of security among women in my community, because they know that CO ‘Legalife-Ukraine’ was created by sex workers and to protect the rights and interests of sex workers. They can contact me, as a representative of the organization and a community leader in Mykolaiv, in any case and at any time. This gives them confidence in the process of defending their rights, in combating stigma and discrimination from anyone, whether it is security guards, medical staff or public officials.

ND: Do you feel support from activists from other regions of Ukraine?

Victoria: Yes, the support from colleagues is very significant. This includes help from colleagues at the head office, and the opportunity to consult with colleagues from the regions.  Directly, it is the events we participate in, trainings, meetings. Monthly humanitarian aid significantly helps to keep women around and mobilise them for events.

In the photo: leaders during the training by CO ‘Legalife-Ukraine’

ND: Today, more and more Ukrainian bloggers have started to pay attention to the problem of sex work regulation in Ukraine. How can you assess such initiatives? What would you like to convey and wish them from yourself?

Victoria: According to one estimate, there are about 80,000 sex workers in Ukraine.  Another estimate is that about half a million women provide sexual services. However, this activity is still not regulated in any way, and is even subject to criminal prosecution.  As a result, today the rights of sex workers to freedom of association, freedom from violence, freedom from discrimination, health, work, and privacy are systematically violated. It is impossible to ignore all of this in the future, which is why we are paying so much attention.

And I think it’s good, these are steps towards creating a positive perception of the decriminalisation of sex work, bringing closer reforms of sex work legislation in Ukraine that will ensure the protection of sex workers and be supported by society. In my opinion, the best blogger is Natalia Isaieva, director of the CO ‘Legalife-Ukraine’. Many people are trying to cover the topic of sex work and the reforms around it, but there is a feeling of incomplete understanding of what is happening.

ND: With the legalisation of medical cannabis and the adoption of a new, more democratic HIV law, do you expect sex work to be decriminalised in the near future? 

Victoria: Although the decriminalisation of sex work in Ukraine has been discussed for many years, and the process is at the stage of developing regulations, everything is happening so slowly that there is probably no hope that sex work will be decriminalised in the near future.

ND: So, on the eve of the New Year, I propose to make a wish for all Ukrainians and for sex workers in particular, and let them come true!

Victoria: I wish us all a peaceful sky, confidence in the future and long years of life in a prosperous Ukraine, and for sex workers in particular, I wish the profession to be decriminalised, which will definitely make work safer and life better.

Interview by Natalia Dorofeeva (CO “Legalife-Ukraine”)