About war and sex work in Ukraine with Olha Skreminska, Zhytomyr town

We are talking with Olha Skreminska, the leader of the initiative group of sex workers from CO ‘Legalife-Ukraine’ in Zhytomyr.

Natalia Dorofeeva, CO “Legalife-Ukraine” (ND): Almost a year has passed since our last interview. Tell us how you are, what important changes have taken place in your life during this time?

Olha: For me, it was a year of opportunities, a year of resilience, acceptance and attempts.

I grew professionally, did a lot of new work, and I mean a lot. The new experience was writing projects and implementing them. I wrote 6 projects, 4 of which were supported, and three have already been successfully implemented. I am happy that they really help people and provide support.

I also studied a lot, I thought that after getting my degree I would finally be able to relax, but no. I have been working with a psychologist in therapy for about three years and I feel that it really helps me. There was a period in my life when a person important to me hurt me. It was very difficult for me then, it was one of the most difficult periods of my life. Now I say that it made me stronger. I immersed myself in work a lot, started doing different things so as not to sit idle. I started doing different sports, yoga, swimming. But what happened to me really traumatized me and I thank therapy and joint work with a psychologist.

So it was a year of trials and tribulations, but I did my best. I realised that I could do it. I was even able to learn to drive a car, not to mention 2 minor accidents).

ND: What about your mentees, what changes have taken place in your Initiative Group (IG) over this year?

Olha: There have been many changes over the past year, unfortunately, some people have moved, some have died, some have been imprisoned. But there are also new members, some have returned from abroad, some have moved from other cities of Ukraine.

By the way, last year and at the beginning of this year, many of our IG members became mothers, and some became grandmothers. Therefore, to my usual work, I have added the search for baby clothes, strollers, baths and even bags for the maternity ward. In general, I have never singled this out, but only now I realised how much help it was, and through my friends I managed to get to girls the things they and their babies needed.

ND: It is clear that in the third year of the war people are very tired, and it feels like the tension is growing. In your opinion, are positive changes in the attitudes of society and the authorities towards sex workers and sex work possible in such circumstances?

Olha: Everything is relative and different. Young people who come to workplaces are more tolerant. The older generation is more discriminatory and stigmatising, especially if a sex worker has HIV status, STIs or is a drug addict.

Attitudes need to be shaped from childhood. When I visit youth institutions, I talk about sex work and see that they are interested in the life of SWs, the reasons and risks of work, while the older generation only labels and does not accept new information for them. I think this is connected with the Soviet policy, where the topic of sex was not raised. These people, when they even hear the word ‘sex’, start twitching, which is funny and scary to me. There are some people who say that because of the stigma attached to the topic of sex in their childhood, when they were sexually abused, they did not tell their parents about it because they were ashamed.

Now is a different time, and we must not repeat these mistakes, but not everyone is ready for this. As an example, at a parent-teacher conference, the class teacher started talking about teenagers growing up and asked us to talk to the children so that there would be no problems at school telling them about the so-called ‘growing up’. And when she called sex education ‘growing up’ and at the same time was ashamed of it, it was scary for me. Because sex education is important, it’s safety, it’s health, it’s mental health.

It’s good when parents can talk freely with their children about sex, but practice shows that most parents don’t talk about it either. Children then look for information themselves and, unfortunately, it can often be fake and harmful.

There was also a case when I was invited to a school to talk about sexuality education.  I am often invited to speak on this topic, but this was the first time it happened - the teenagers started to ooh and ahh, and it was incomprehensible to me, because usually students ask a lot of questions, they are curious. I asked, ‘Why are you reacting like this, aren’t you interested?’ And they told me that they had already been visited by someone from another institution and told about sexuality. I won’t name the institution, but I know that they have a religious bent. They told the students that condoms are bad, that they do not protect, that they should not be used, and that they should not have sex before marriage because it is a sin and evil - I am directly quoting what the children told me.  Then I asked them what they thought about it, and one student told me that it was ‘bullshit’.

That is, after such ‘lectures’ on sexuality education, teenagers will not perceive adults, they have made certain conclusions, but they have not consolidated the idea of sex after the wedding.

In turn, I told them about safe sex, what risky behaviour is and its consequences. And this was really interesting to them. They learnt, for example, about different types of condoms and lubricants, that some condoms cannot be used with lubricants because it can destroy the latex, and then the protection becomes ineffective, which can lead to HIV, STIs, or pregnancy, etc. As a result, stereotypes and myths were debunked, and students received information that can actually protect them, not scare them.

In the photo: Sexuality education lessons

ND: Does your inner circle support your ideas and initiatives for sex workers?

Olha: There are probably no people in my environment who would have anything against my activities. When I tell new companies or new acquaintances that I work with sex workers, many people are curious.

But in reality, there are those who probably condemn sex workers. When I tell them about the difficult situations of SWs, they seem to be happy about it and say something like “well, they chose this area themselves, so let them suffer from violence now.” And I try to convince them, saying, for example, that teachers also have difficult situations with students and conflicts with parents at school, but no one says that it is their fault that they chose to work as teachers, etc.

I form my environment from tolerant people with whom we share certain views on life.

ND: How do social networks react to your position on decriminalisation and protection of SWs?

Olha: There have been cases when older people have spoken negatively about both my activities and sex work. In such cases, without crossing personal boundaries, I can explain to the person that if they have a narrow outlook and a low level of development, they do not have to show it to everyone. Most of these people are convinced that they are right and there is nothing to explain to them, and I see no point in having unconstructive conversations. There are often haters on the Legalife-Ukraine page, and I find it funny to read it, I feel sorry for such people.

ND: Over the past year, has anything changed in terms of cooperation with the police and other government agencies? 

Olha: Cooperation with government agencies and the police continues. If I need to, I can easily contact the police ombudsman for human rights, who gives friendly advice and helps girls. But sometimes there are problems with sex workers themselves, because their activities are illegal, they are wary of the police.

Or recently, there was a case when we tried to protect a girl, but at the last moment she made a ‘deal’ with the police. That is, we made a huge amount of effort to help and protect her, but she went ahead with her own arrangement. Unfortunately, there are many situations like this when I go to social services and other government agencies to arrange for help for girls, and at some point they give up or even lie to me.

There was a case when I was helping a sex worker to receive payments as a single mother and accompanied her, and she was filing for alimony from her partner at the time, and she did not tell me about it. This is the specificity of working with sex workers or people in general.

In the photo: Training for police

ND: Do sex workers themselves often have to "cross paths" with the police nowadays? Is there any change in the attitude of police officers towards sex workers?

Olha: Now very often online SWs who work on webcams are being covered up, trying to tie sex workers to pimping.

For example, a client ordered a sex worker and asked her to bring another girl with her, she did, and that’s it, she was charged with Article 302 for pimping. The client was a fake, the money was marked, and so on, so the police catch ‘particularly dangerous’ criminals.

Trials are held, cases are prosecuted, and so on. Recently, there was a story in the news about a pimp being exposed. And one of my sex workers friends was involved in the case as an accomplice. She was visited by police officers who called her a prostitute in front of her children, conducted an illegal search and seized her personal belongings. And after consulting me and working with the lawyers who advised us on the case, the girl turned into a witness.

Girls who have been working for a long time know how to deal with the police or turn to me for legal support, because very often the police simply put pressure on sex workers, hoping to pin all the cases on them.

ND: And what about access to medical services: is it easier or more difficult for sex workers to get medical care today? 

Olha: If a sex worker has a sufficient level of knowledge, she can easily get services that are available by law.

Many sex workers are intimidated, victims of domestic and gender-based violence, and they need special treatment and support. Unfortunately, we have many doctors who are intolerant, indifferent and very rude to girls. Because of this attitude, they simply do not want to seek services. They would rather come to me, so that I could consult with a doctor and help them in this way.

I had a situation when a sex worker started suffering from rashes and wounds on her face and body. At first, she was ashamed to go to the doctors, and when she did, the doctors just sent her to each other, and condemned her lifestyle. And there are many such situations. I have established contacts with a dermo-venereologist, I described the symptoms and sent a photo. The doctor prescribed treatment and chose it according to the girl’s budget, which is important. After the treatment, SW got better, and it almost went away. But if I hadn’t consulted, she wouldn’t have received proper treatment. So it turns out that services are available, but if you are from a vulnerable group and cannot defend your rights on your own, you will not receive medical care.

ND: Do you have harm prevention and reduction services in place, as there are problems with this in some regions?

Olha: I refer most sex workers to harm reduction and prevention projects, and the girls receive help there. This happens on the basis of our friendly NGO Perspectiva, where girls are tested for HIV, viral hepatitis and syphilis, receive free condoms and lubricants, etc. The girls are satisfied with the work of the staff, and the social workers of Perspectiva are doing their best.

However, there are also disadvantages. Previously, it was possible to get tested on the street, but now the SWs need to come to organisation, which distances closeted girls from services. There is also a demand for high-quality condoms and other packaging for lubricants, more convenient, because one sachet contains 5 grams, and after using a little, you can’t leave it for later - it leaks. Thus, government programs and services aimed at helping sex workers minimise the risks of HIV, TB and STIs should better take into account the needs of sex workers.

ND: What do sex workers complain about now, what are their concerns?

Olha: Probably the main thing is the rise in prices, in particular for housing. Since the beginning of the war, many IDPs have come to Zhytomyr. Recently, a lot of Kyiv residents have been coming to us because we have a slightly better situation with electricity and shelling. Because of this, the demand for housing is growing and prices are rising accordingly.

The problems with electricity and communication also affect the ability of SWs to earn money. Risks to life have increased and earnings are falling, and the situation is further aggravated by the curfew, which makes it difficult for sex workers to get home.

ND: Are the main needs of the community different compared to last year?

Olha: The needs remain the same as they were. The need for humanitarian support - food, hygiene products, baby formula and diapers are very important.

Due to the deteriorating economic situation, it is difficult for sex workers to make ends meet and they have to take more risks working with the military. The police also conduct raids from time to time.

The community needs psychological support and guidance, and often the girls themselves do not understand this. Due to their difficult emotional state, a significant number of SWs are addicted to gidazepam, alcohol and started using psychoactive substances, which is how they relieve their anxiety. Unbeknownst to them, they create even more problems for themselves and become addicted, and by using drugs they may neglect their personal safety and expose themselves to risks that can endanger their health.

In the photo: humanitarian aid from CO "Legalife-Ukraine" to sex workers in Zhytomyr, 2024

ND: Please recall the last time you helped sex workers, what needs were met?

Olha:  This year, with the help of the project of CO ‘Legalife-Ukraine’, I helped many girls to restore their passports and sign declarations with family doctors.

One girl moved from Mykolaiv town, she didn’t tell her story to the end, but now she lives with a partner and works as a sex worker. She had never had a declaration with her family doctor. She had some fears and did not want to go alone, I think she used to be discriminated against by health workers. That’s why she needed my support and advice. We gathered the relevant package of documents, I made an appointment with the doctor in advance and accompanied this girl to the medical facility. Now she finally has a family doctor and can receive the relevant medical services free of charge.

For most people, this is strange. You might think that if she needed it, she would go on her own and you wouldn’t need to accompany her like a little girl. This is a very wrong idea. It doesn’t work that way here. Girls who are stigmatised or have a fear of doctors, or have shame, may not go, even in the most dire situations. In our city, there was a case when a girl was raped with a bottle, and she was in terrible pain and did not seek help because of shame and fear.  It was good that my colleague accompanied her to the ambulance and helped her.

Another situation happened when a sex worker’s partner beat her. The woman has a small child, and she can’t just leave him. We met, I advised her on all the services and ways she could leave him and start a new life with support, but she couldn’t. She is very private, it is difficult for her to talk about her life, all I could do was to provide quality information and support her. She refused to consult a psychologist. I tried to show her that she was valuable, but I could not interfere in her life. Only she can change her life. She needed time. She was receiving humanitarian aid from me and told me that her partner was constantly saying that she was nothing without him, although, as she said, they were living thanks to the humanitarian aid she was receiving. A couple of weeks later, she ran away from him.

ND: What is your personal motivation for working in the field of sex workers’ rights protection? What do you consider your main achievement on this path?

Olha: Unfortunately, a significant number of sex workers grew up with a misunderstanding of their rights and their protection. Protecting the rights of sex workers in times of war is extremely important because war makes them even more vulnerable to violence, exploitation and discrimination. In these difficult times, they are often left without support and legal protection, making their lives even more dangerous.

We must ensure that the rights of sex workers are protected, regardless of the circumstances. This is not only a matter of their safety, but also of basic human rights. If we ignore their problems, we create an even greater risk for these women, who are already in extremely difficult circumstances. Supporting sex workers in times of war is not just an act of solidarity, it is our duty as a society that strives for justice and equality for all.

The main thing for me is to support a sex worker as a human being and make her feel needed and understood. Although it is very difficult to defend the rights of sex workers and have successful cases, it is very difficult. I have had many cases where we were engaged in legal protection, involving partners, etc., and at some point the SWs stopped contacting, or “arranged” themselves.

On the other hand, many sex workers, when they feel supported and cared for, that they are called, they are counseled, etc., they immediately feel different. And they say so themselves and thank us. I can spend a lot of time accompanying a girl to the institution, but the situation may not be completely resolved, but it is important for her that she was not alone.

For me, it’s like a mother taking her child to the doctor. And here it is important to give a person support, and not to accustom them to the fact that someone will always solve all their problems for them.

In the photo: Meeting of the Coordination Council on the Safety of the Spread of HIV and Tuberculosis

ND: Do you feel support from activists from other regions of Ukraine?

Olha: Yes, my colleagues can support me both in word and deed, depending on what is needed. If you don’t know something or are hesitant, for example, there are activists who work much harder and have a lot of experience, you can turn to them. What I like is that we are located in different parts of Ukraine, but it feels like everyone is very close. And it’s support not only at work, but also during shelling, power cuts, etc.

ND: More and more Ukrainian bloggers have started to pay attention to the problem of sex work regulation in Ukraine. How do you assess these initiatives? What would you like to convey and wish them from yourself?

Olga: Probably the news about porn actresses donating to the Armed Forces and helping the army confused everyone. People who condemn sex work can’t say anything here.

I think that bloggers are seen and heard, and they have to convey important and truthful information about the state of sex work. Talking about a person’s choice, which is sometimes forced, but there should be no harassment or persecution for it. Do they put people in jail for doing manicures at home?! Bloggers, having an audience, should tell them that this is a hard job, about the stigma that sex workers face. Such steps are a way to decriminalise sex work.

ND: With the legalisation of medical cannabis and the adoption of a new, more democratic HIV law, do you expect sex work to be decriminalised in the near future? 

Olga: The legalisation of medical cannabis and the adoption of the new HIV law are undoubtedly positive steps forward in the field of human rights and healthcare. These changes demonstrate that Ukraine is gradually moving towards more progressive legislation.

As for the decriminalisation of sex work, I see the potential for such a step, but this does not mean that it will happen in the near future. Decriminalisation of sex work is a complex and controversial issue that requires a broader public debate and political will.

It is a positive signal that Ukraine is beginning to take human rights and health issues more seriously, which may pave the way for decriminalisation of sex work. This is important for protecting the rights of sex workers, ensuring their safety and access to social and health services. However, in order for this to become a reality, we need the support of the public and the willingness of politicians to engage in dialogue and change. Therefore, I am optimistic.

ND: Well, in conclusion, I propose to make a wish for 2025 for all Ukrainians and separately for sex workers. And at our next meeting, we will discuss whether our dreams have come true.

Olga: I wish for victory, peace and security, so that the basic human needs are finally met.

For our country to develop, for everyone to be able to live in a country where rights and freedoms are respected, where there are opportunities for development and where supporting each other becomes the norm.

For society to become more educated, tolerant and happy. Where schools teach about sexuality education, human rights and the importance of human dignity.

Separately, for sex workers, I wish for legislative changes that will make their work safer and legal. I want them to have access to medical care, legal protection and social support without fear of persecution. Let society become more open and tolerant, and let sex workers live and work without stigma and violence.

Interview by Natalia Dorofeeva (CO ‘Legalife-Ukraine’)